


Conversations

by felineranger



Category: Red Dwarf
Genre: M/M
Language: English
Status: Completed
Published: 2004-07-01
Updated: 2004-06-30
Packaged: 2017-10-07 06:11:43
Rating: Explicit
Warnings: Rape/Non-Con
Chapters: 3
Words: 3,799
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/62219
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/felineranger/pseuds/felineranger
Summary: <blockquote class="userstuff">
              <p>An embarassing incident forces Lister and Rimmer to share some secrets...</p>
            </blockquote>





	1. Chapter 1

It was 3am on Starbug and Rimmer had just come off his shift. Technically he should have been on for another hour or so, but as soon as the Cat had arrived he had made it very clear that Rimmer's presence was neither wanted nor required, so he had taken the opportunity to get an early night. In fact he was still fuming over the Cat's remark about his haircut when he walked into the sleeping quarters he shared with Lister and stopped in shock.

 

Lister was lying naked on his bunk, his eyes lightly closed and his hands...busy. He hadn't noticed Rimmer yet and was completely involved in what he was doing; which, now Rimmer was looking, was actually quite odd. One hand was slowly but roughly jerking on the erect shaft of his cock and the other was pinching the tender flesh of his balls and his inner thighs - hard enough to bruise if Rimmer was any judge.

 

It occurred to him that he had never seen Lister masturbate before; despite the number of years they'd shared a room. He'd known guys at cadet school who were very open, even boasting, about the fact that they jerked off in front of their roommates. It seemed to them a kind of symbol of their machismo and the strength of their friendship. Of course, he and Lister had never had what you could exactly call a friendship. They had always generally given each other enough space and time alone to do what they had to without having to discuss it. In fact, now Rimmer considered it, it was actually quite surprising that this had never happened before. Although, if he were to be completely honest, the thought of it had crossed his mind once or twice... when he lay awake at night... and the cramped bunk felt huge and empty...

 

Lister drew in a sharp breath and made a small desperate noise in his throat. He arched his back slightly and Rimmer saw his hand squeeze his balls with one swift, vicious movement that made him wince just to watch, and then there was the pump of white fluid over his fingers and he sighed and nestled back against the pillows.

 

Rimmer hesitated. He could try to creep out silently and pretend this had never happened, or he could confront him and say something sarcastic to break the tension...But in fact he could do neither, as Lister opened his eyes while he was still stood there debating. Rimmer saw the blissful daze of afterglow vanish abruptly from his eyes as he saw him. "Christ, Rimmer! How long have you been standing there?" he demanded, pulling the covers over himself. Rimmer opened his mouth to reply but couldn't think of anything to say that wouldn't give away that he'd been there watching him for quite a while; so he avoided the question altogether. "Do you always do that when you jerk off?"

"Do what?" Lister asked; his face flushed bright red.

"Hurt yourself." Rimmer said bluntly.

 

Lister blinked and his eyes flicked down, away from Rimmer's face, "What do you mean?"

"You were hurting yourself. Pinching...I mean, it's just..." he floundered helplessly, "...I didn't know you got off on that."

"I didn't know you got off on watching me." Lister replied hotly, "And what are you doing here anyway? You're still meant to be up front!"

"It was an accident! The door wasn't even closed! Anyway, the Cat booted me out so I came back early. I live here too, you know."

"How could I forget?" Lister answered bitterly, rolling over and turning his back to him, "Lights!" The room went dark.

 

Rimmer sighed, pulled off his boots and lay down on his bed opposite Lister. They lay in silence for a moment, but Rimmer wasn't ready to let it go yet. "So? Do you always do that?"

"I wasn't doing anything! Smeg off!"

"Lister, I saw you! I mean, my god, it looked like agony! How can you do that to yourself?"

"Leave it, Rimmer!"

"I'm just curious."

"Yeah! About my smegging wanking technique!"

"So it is a developed technique then?"

"Rimmer, I do not want to have this conversation! Shut the smeg up and go to sleep!"

"You'll feel better if you talk about it, you know. That's what girls do. Girls talk about everything."

"In case it had escaped your attention, Rimmer, we are not girls."

"The principal's the same, Lister. It's good to get things off your chest."

"Fine!"

 

Lister rolled over angrily, "So I like a bit of rough stuff in the bedroom! So what?"

"I wasn't criticising." Rimmer told him, "I was just surprised. You don't seem like the type."

"So what is the type?"

"Well...I don't know. Someone a bit more...submissive. You don't come across as being a victim, if you know what I mean."

"People aren't always what they seem, Rimmer. If you'd ever bothered to take an interest in other people's feelings you'd know that."

"I'm taking an interest now, aren't I?"

"Unfortunately."

 

"So, why do you do it?" Rimmer asked.

"I don't know. I like it, that's all."

"I read a thesis once when I was studying psychology at evening classes. It said that people with masochistic fantasies and habits suffered deep underlying guilt about their sexuality."

"Really." Lister sounded unimpressed.

"You don't have to feel guilty, you know. You're a grown man, after all. It's only natural."

"Rimmer, I do not feel guilty about my sexuality."

"I bet you do. Deep down somewhere. You just can't admit it."

"Why don't we talk about you for a second?" Lister rounded on him. "If people with masochistic tendencies are guilty about something, then what about people with sadistic tendencies? Hmmm?"

 

There was a pause. "I don't know what you're talking about, Lister."

"I'm talking about you and your 'power issues'. You get your biggest kicks out of having power over people and then using it to make them miserable! You ran Z-shift like the third reich! And how about shutting me, Kryten and Cat in quarantine? Ring any bells?"

"Okay, I may have issues with command." Rimmer replied airily, "But that's not necessarily a sexual thing."

"Oh yeah? Well, how about this? You remember that little incident with the triplicator?"

"Yes."

"You never met your low self, did you?"

"No."

"I did. Let me give you a brief summary: Crazed, sadistic, transvestite dominatrix with whip fetish."

"Transvestite?"

"Trust me, Rimmer. That was probably the least disturbing thing about him. So what does that say about you?"

"I think," said Rimmer slowly and wearily, "It all points to the fact that actually, we're both a great deal weirder than either of us ever realised." Across the room he heard Lister sigh, "Perhaps."

 

They lay quietly for a while until Rimmer spoke up softly, "Lister?"

"What?"

"Was I good at being a crazed, sadistic, transvestite dominatrix with a whip fetish?"

"Yes, Rimmer."

"It's just...it's nice to know I'm good at something. Somewhere."

"You were very good, Rimmer. Particularly with the whip, as I recall. Very skilled."

"Oh. Well, that's nice." There was a pause while Lister's words sunk in. "Er...Did I whip you?"

"Yes. You did."

"Oh. Sorry."

"That's okay. I'm a masochist, remember?" There was the slightest edge in Lister's voice but Rimmer couldn't quite tell if it was humour or sarcasm.

"Goodnight."

"Goodnight."


	2. Chapter 2

It was the next day and, as far as Rimmer could tell, Lister seemed to have forgiven him for walking in on him the night before. He hadn't been that worried about it; Lister didn't generally hold a grudge for long; but something about the whole episode just wouldn't settle in his mind. He kept playing it over and over.

 

Maybe it was just because on Starbug the whole subject of sex had achieved a weird kind of status that was almost mythical. So finding Lister like that, and then talking about everything the way they had, it just seemed...surreal. And then there had been what Lister had told him about his low self.

 

As Lister had pointed out to him, he had never seen his doppelganger; but all night long his sleep had been haunted by - unsurprisingly perhaps - fairly accurate images of himself in S&amp;M garb, thrashing his roommate.

 

Before last night, Lister had never mentioned the incident. He had only ever explained to them about having the spinal implant embedded when he was captured. Whatever else they had done to him in those few hours, he had always kept to himself; although it hadn't required a huge stretch of the imagination to work out that it hadn't been pleasant. But...

 

Rimmer's mind started to whir in an unexpected direction. But Lister liked pain. Was that why he had never told his crew-mates about what had happened? Did Lister feel a traitorous stab of shame deep down because he had enjoyed what was meant to have been torture?

 

Rimmer thought back to the previous night; called up the image of Lister before he'd realised that Rimmer was there watching him. When he'd still been lost in his own little world of pleasure and fantasy; and utterly uninhibited. In his head, he watched Lister's hands, his face. I just like a bit of rough stuff; he'd said defensively when Rimmer had confronted him. But that just didn't wash. Everyone liked a bit of rough stuff in the bedroom. A playful nip now and then, a bit of a smack on the bottom; even a good hard scratch down the back at the right moment was hardly unusual. What Lister had been doing was more than that. What Lister had been doing to himself wasn't playful, it was cruel. Having seen that, Rimmer could believe that Lister could get a kick out of being whipped.

 

But could he believe that he could get a kick out of doing it to him?

 

Rimmer had never considered himself to be sadistic. Petty, yes. Perhaps even vindictive on occasion, but actually sadistic? Even in his most intense moments of anger or annoyance with his roommate, he'd never really wanted to do anything more than give him a sharp smack round the ear; and to be fair he'd never even done that, despite the fact that his hard-light drive would actually make it possible now if he did feel like it. Maybe he should. Maybe it was about time he knocked a bit of respect into him. But then, having said that, Lister would probably enjoy it. The thought stirred up mixed emotions. On one hand, the sense of satisfaction connected with the thought of hitting Lister both shamed and excited him, but then if Lister did enjoy it...that kind of cancelled out the shame part and just left him feeling...sort of warm and fuzzy. Yes...Not really hurting him, nothing that would make him bleed. Maybe just make him sting a little bit...just to let him know who was boss...

He shook his head. This was very, very fucked up. He shouldn't even be having these thoughts; especially about his crewmate. But despite all his analysing of the incident, the one thing that kept creeping back into his head time and time again was the way Lister had looked as he played with himself. The expression of sheer pleasure and contentment on his face as he brought himself to orgasm. And the way it had made Rimmer feel as he watched him. A feeling that felt a lot like the one he got when he thought about hitting him. Or actually...just touching him at all. A part of Rimmer really liked the idea of being the cause of that expression.

 

But that was just daft. It wasn't like he was gay or anything...And even if he was, he reasoned, Lister most certainly wasn't. It was just silliness. He should just forget the whole thing.


	3. Chapter 3

Later on that night, Lister failed to turn up for his shift in the cockpit. Rimmer left Kryten and the Cat to muddle along without them while he went to find out what was wrong. He found Lister back in their sleeping quarters. "You should be up in the cockpit, you know. Cat's covering your shift for you," he said reprovingly. Lister was sitting on the bed, biting his nails and Rimmer noticed that his expression was troubled. "Are you alright?" He asked curiously.

Lister looked up; "I don't know," he said honestly. Rimmer sat down beside him on the bed. "Everything we talked about the other night...it's kind of been on my mind. Made me think about a lot of stuff I've spent most of my life trying not to think about, you know?" Lister continued.

"Me too," Rimmer confessed.

"You were right when you said about...why I do what I do. I do feel guilty."

"Why?" Rimmer asked, genuinely confused. "I mean, like I said, you're a grown man. It would be unnatural not to have any kind of interest in sex at all; any desire."

"It's not that." Lister said softly, looking down, "I'm not sure if I can say this. I've never told anyone about this before. I don't know how to start."

"What is it?" Rimmer felt a knot of anxiety in his stomach. He didn't know what was coming, and wasn't entirely sure if he wanted to. But somewhere under the chill of nerves was a small glowing spark of warmth, not just at the fact that Lister had chosen him to confide in, but also at what he might reveal. Rimmer was aware that this was a revelation that might change everything they thought they knew about each other.

"I didn't always used to do it." Lister told him, "The whole...pain thing. It only started after...after something happened to me. But I never realised until I thought about what you said to me the other night. And then it all made sense."

"What happened?" Rimmer asked. He saw Lister frown slightly, his eyes becoming distant as he thought back, touched the memories. "There was a man," he said.

Rimmer sat very still and said nothing. "His name was Alex," Lister continued, "He was a friend of a friend. One of those people who you see sometimes at the pub or at parties but don't really know well enough to call them one of your friends. He was gay. Not like...camp or anything. You would have thought he was straight if you didn't know him, but he was always really open about it. He wasn't ashamed. But we used to tease him. Not in a nasty way, just mucking about. Pretending to flirt with him, taking the piss, that kind of thing."

Rimmer saw Lister's eyes darken and he was fairly sure that Lister had half-forgotten he was even still sat there. Lister was narrating to himself now, telling himself the story, facing whatever it was that he had bottled up for so long. "There was a party at Mike's house and he was there. Everyone was so drunk...and I was in the kitchen with him, and with Luke and Rob, and we were teasing him again. And I kissed him on the cheek. And he looked at me and he said, 'Careful, Dave. It's hard enough to keep my hands off you when I'm sober.' And we all laughed and then Luke and Rob went out of the room for some reason and it was just me and him and he said that he meant it. That he really did like me; that he'd liked me for ages. And then I felt really bad because all the time I'd been teasing him he must have felt like I was leading him on. So I apologised loads, and told him I wasn't interested. And he said it was okay.

'Then later that night, I went upstairs to the toilet because John was throwing up in the one downstairs. And when I came out he was waiting for me on the landing. He told me to come with him, and he grabbed my arm and pulled me into one of the bedrooms. I was so pissed I'd pretty much forgotten what had happened in the kitchen earlier and I thought he just wanted to share a joint or something so I just went with him. And then once we were in the bedroom he shut the door...and he started to kiss me. And I was just giggling because I thought he was joking around and then he started saying all this stuff...about how he knew that I wanted him really, that I'd been flirting with him for ages and couldn't admit it, that he was going to show me that I couldn't just tease him. And I started to realise he was serious. But it was too late and he wouldn't let go of me so I started trying to push him off and he slapped me...really hard across the face. And I lost my balance and stumbled backwards and he dived at me and knocked me onto the bed. And I was so pissed and he was so much bigger than me anyway...there was nothing I could do..."

He seemed dazed, almost like he was re-living the effects of the slap he had just described, but not distraught. All that Rimmer could discern from his expression was a kind of bewilderment at the fact that this had happened to him, that this was actually his life; like he couldn't quite believe it. "He was doing all these things to me...and making me do things to him...and he was so rough...he kept hitting me and pinching me and hurting me..."

"Lister," Rimmer felt he had to interrupt; couldn't let him spiral any further into what had happened in the state of mind he was in. He was going to make it simple for him. "Did he rape you?"

Lister looked up; and to Rimmer his eyes looked huge suddenly in his face, like he was in shock and he knew he'd done the right thing making him stop. "I don't know," he said honestly, "I don't know if what we did counts. He didn't...you know...penetrate me..." Rimmer nodded in understanding,

"Okay." He gave Lister a long look, "And now you feel guilty because you feel like you teased him into doing it. Like you deserved it. Am I right?"

"Sort of," Lister tipped his head to one side to look at him, "But mostly I feel guilty because...even though he was hurting me while he did it...some of what he did to me felt...good."

Lister's voice seemed to get smaller as the sentence went on and by the time he'd squeezed that final word out it was little more than a whisper. "Does that sound awful?"

"No..." Rimmer shook his head slowly, "No, it doesn't. But it does make a lot of stuff make sense."

"You must think I'm really sick," Lister whispered dejectedly.

"I've always thought you were sick, Listy," Rimmer said with a small smile, "But not for that. And anyway..." he shrugged philosophically, "Like I said, you're not the only one who's been thinking. You were right too, you know. I've got some issues that I should really sort out. And if anything they're a lot unhealthier than yours."

"The whip fetish?" Lister smiled weakly.

"And that," Rimmer admitted. Inside he thought: First I've got to sort out the you fetish. Then he thought: Did I just think that?

Lister sighed; a long weary noise that made it sound as though he'd been crying, although as far as Rimmer could see his eyes were clear, and suddenly bent down to rest his head on Rimmer's shoulder. "I wish things didn't always have to be so screwed up for us," he said softly. Rimmer froze,

"What do you mean?"

"Just everything," Lister sighed again, "Our families, our relationships, losing the rest of the crew, losing the Dwarf, ending up here on this smegging ship...Nothing's ever gone right for us has it?" Rimmer closed his eyes. Tentatively, almost shyly, he let his head sink down to rest gently against Lister's. "I know," he said quietly. But this feels right, he thought. His heartbeat quickened. Maybe it is. Maybe it's about time something went right.

Slowly, he took a long deep breath, then reached over and pinched the inside of Lister's thigh, hard. Lister gasped and winced, "Ow! What the smeg did you do that for?" Rimmer looked at him,

"Just to try and make you feel a bit better," he said gently, "Did it work?"

Lister didn't answer him but Rimmer could see all the answer he needed in his face. He looked startled, confused...but his eyes were sparkling and there was a definite hint of pink climbing up his cheeks. "Does it smart?" he asked softly. Lister nodded silently. "It felt good, didn't it?" Lister nodded again.

"It felt good for me too," Rimmer said, "And I think maybe...the only way we're going to work through this is by doing it together." He reached out and gave Lister's face a quick sharp slap; not hard enough to bruise, but hard enough to make the nerves beneath the skin tingle, then leaned over and kissed the red mark left on his cheek. Lister shivered enticingly in response, then something inside him seemed to break and he threw his arms around Rimmer's neck and kissed him adoringly. Rimmer kissed him back and nipped his lower lip slightly before drawing away. They gazed into each other's eyes, their faces close, noses just touching. "Just do what I say," Rimmer whispered tenderly, "And I think maybe we'll get through this."

They kissed again and tumbled down onto the bed beneath them.

 

 

Two weeks later...

 

"I'm not going in there! It's a code red environment and we don't have the proper equipment!" Rimmer snapped, "We're not going!"

"Rimmer, it's our only chance to stock up on fuel and supplies! It might be weeks before we find another derelict. We have to take the chance now. I'm going to grab the loading equipment. Cat, man, start taking her down."

As far as Kryten and the Cat were concerned, it was just another of the little disagreements that Lister and Rimmer had daily. They were both to busy to see that as Lister went past, Rimmer managed to give him a sharp but discreet smack on the ass. Which was more or less his way of saying; You might be in charge right now, sweetie, but just wait till I get you home...


End file.
